anglista.edu.pl :: Suggest

rudzia · Wysłany: Czw 05 Mar, 2009 7:07 pm **Suggest**

Mam małą zagwostkę. Znalazłam w podręczniku (nie powiem jakim) następujące zdanie:
I suggest you did .....
Nie mam zielonego pojęcia co robi czas przeszły po suggest. Pomocy!!!

majlo · Wysłany: Pią 06 Mar, 2009 1:20 pm

It seems plain wrong, but you can never know, right? Besides, you could've done a better job and provided us with some context.

rudzia · Wysłany: Sob 07 Mar, 2009 6:08 pm

Oki, I guess I lied (but it wasn't consciously) the whole sentence is as follows:
I suggest you told him the truth.
There's no context, while it is exercise after grammar for suggest.

majlo · Wysłany: Sob 07 Mar, 2009 6:34 pm

Doesn't the exercise consist in correcting mistakes by any chance? I've no clue what else it might be... :zalamany:

Gamma · Wysłany: Sob 07 Mar, 2009 8:05 pm

In that-clauses after "suggest" various verb forms are possible.
Ordinary present and past tenses can be used in British English.
Her uncle suggests that she gets a job in a bank.
He suggested that she got a job in a bank.
[from: Michael Swan "Practical English Usage"]

rudzia · Wysłany: Nie 08 Mar, 2009 6:39 pm

majlo unfortunately not. This is the "correct" sentence.
Gamma I know the rule you cited, but in that sentence there is verb in past after suggest in present. Maybe it is a mistake in print? :zalamany:

Gamma · Wysłany: Nie 08 Mar, 2009 8:02 pm

Rudzia, can you give the title of this textbook and possibly the page/exercise number, etc.?

rudzia · Wysłany: Pią 13 Mar, 2009 10:30 pm

Unfortunately I don't have it at home. I saw it at my friends house. Next week I will be meeting her and then I ask.
Because I am stubborn person I found that it is correct and it is described in book written by Martinet, but I haven't found it yet. Thank you all for interest.

marcin · Wysłany: Pią 13 Mar, 2009 10:42 pm

I think this might be 'A Practical English Grammar' by Thomson, Martinet.
Since you are so persistent in finding the truth, I will lend you my copy - but please let us know when you find it in there.
BTW, I guess you will find some interesting notes on pages 40 and 143 of Graver's Advanced English Practice.

Cytat:

'Suggest' raises special problems when followed by a 'that' clause [...]. The full construction is:
a) I suggest (that) he should see a specialist immediately.
However, the conjunction 'that' is often omitted, and so is 'should' (wich in any case simply reinforces the idea of recommendation implied in the word 'suggest'):
b) I suggest he see a specialist immediately.
The dependent verb may then be 'regularized':
c) I suggest he sees a specialist immediately.
Hence in the past tense we find:
a) I suggested he should see a specialist immediately.
b) I suggested he see a specialist immediately.
c) I suggested he saw a specialisty immediately.

majlo · Wysłany: Sob 14 Mar, 2009 10:48 am

Are you guys talking about the Martinet from the '70s? I believe it was co-written with someone else... I bought it a few years ago when I started studying English. I value more Swan, Vince, Murphy and the like.

Anyways, in Rudzia's example we have "suggest" in present tense followed by a verb in past tense. So we're still stuck, I guess.

I remember doing something called "concord" when I was a fresman. According to the rules of concord, "I suggest he saw..." is ill-formed. I know there are always exceptions, but I'm not sure if we're dealing with one now.

rudzia · Wysłany: Czw 09 Kwi, 2009 9:05 pm

Finally, I managed to find a little bit of time to search through the Martinet and I found it. It is the section 289 Suggestions.

Cytat:

С First, second or third person suggestions with suggest or propose
suggest (+ possessive adjective) + gerund, or suggest that + subject + present tense/should.
propose is used in exactly the same way but is slightly more formal than suggest.
In the active, suggest + should + infinitive is more formal than suggest + a present or past tense.

majlo · Wysłany: Pią 10 Kwi, 2009 11:37 am

Does Martinet provide any examples?

rudzia · Wysłany: Pią 17 Kwi, 2009 11:02 pm

Unfortunately not.

majlo · Wysłany: Sob 18 Kwi, 2009 10:11 am

beryl · Wysłany: Sro 20 Maj, 2009 11:21 pm

Gosh! I realize I'm cutting my own throat writing this but all you guys, proficient language users, refer to British grammarians from the 60's and 70's

Suggest is a complex transitive verb and it takes a variety of verb forms depending on context, personal linguistic taste,the author's own dialect etc. etc

English grammar sometimes differs from county to county to county or state to state, (prepositions, use of modals) etc.

Luckily my grammar gooks are back home and don't have to use them.

The grammar book by Marinet is one the worst book ever published, he claims that American people use 'had to' in the sense of 'must have' later claims that 'lest' is followed by should which is a typically British construct....

He is just INCONSISTENT

All those verb forms listed above are standard.

Enjoy the rest of your day

)

rudzia · Wysłany: Sob 23 Maj, 2009 8:51 am

majlo sorry for not giving you an answer, but I haven't seen that person, who has this book, but as far as I know the book was published last year, so this is not something old.

marcin · Wysłany: Sob 23 Maj, 2009 9:52 pm

Beryl, thanks a lot. You have saved my day. That's why we need you so much here. :-)

beryl · Wysłany: Nie 24 Maj, 2009 11:15 pm

Thanks for your support Marcin

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